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The museum I am involved with has recently been donated Insert Setright machine AA. 7

It is the pre-war style, so no Setright maker's plate with serial number.

The lead seal is stamped "W A & Sons Ltd S R"

This suggests "Walter Alexander & Sons" - one of the forebears of the Scottish Bus Group.

Were the machines allocated to particular subsidiaries (Fife, Midland, Northen) / depots at the time, or were they common user?

Any thoughts welcome.

Thanks,

Alexander Fife, Mildland and Northern only came about in I think, 1961. I suggest AA.7 was new to SMT, and then transferred to Alexanders. The prewar registers new to Alexanders were numbered in various letter+2 number series.  The SMT/WSMR and CSMT/LTC ones were mainly 2 letters+ a number.

Thanks for that.

It may possibly have passed to A1 Service (Ayrshire) as it came with some A1 Service 10 journey tickets, but that doesn't necessarily prove anything.

It also came in a box marked 'CY 57' - presumably for a post-war City machine...

A1 never used insert Setrights - Setright Speeds replaced punch tickets. The tickets were used in the Speeds.

Lincolnshire Road Car had some of the City Coach Co. inserts. A few are believed to have then passed to Milsons of Coningsby.  My City machine is thought to have followed this path.

I take it that A1 had short insert slots on their Setright Speed machines then?  I suppose this would be about the same size as the slot on an Insert Setright.

The Lincolnshire connection makes sense - the machine came (in a roundabout manner) from someone with LRC connections.

The Allan Condie listing suggests that some 'CY' machines never got as far as City and were re-directed to Wilts & Dorset , so quite possible some went elsewhere as well.  (Presume City had either over-ordered or changed their mind - or was the order overtaken by their being taken over by Westcliff?)

Machine CY 16 (serial 3030) definitely went to Milsons - it came to us complete with correct box - this containing some Milsons Insert tickets, and labelled for the Horncastle service.

A1:  yes - their Axx series machines (the first batch) definitely had a short slot. The later Bxx, Cxx and Dxx batches were probably similar.

City:  The CY machines were delivered in stages up to 1948. The WMS takeover was in 1952, so this doesn't tie-up with Mr Condie's list. 

The City inserts being fairly new were passed on via the Tilling network as soon as WMS had enough Speeds delivered.  Most went to Wilts & Dorset; a few to Lincs RCC.  Based on actual tickets, I have an fairly complete list. Contact me offline if you would like it.   The highest number was CY85 - this went to Wilts & Dorset.

 Looking at my list, it seems LRCC mainly had the lower numbered City machines, W&D the higher. Mine is CY64, serial 3078 but I cannot trace a LRCC or W&D ticket issued through it. However, I have some evidence that it probably came from Milsons.

The idea of machines being re-allocated after 1952 makes more sense.  I think AC recognises his list as being "to the best of his knowledge" and welcomes further info.

There is (I have a thread on here somewhere about it) some confusion over WMS / ENOC serial numbers, possibly not helped by EN re-constructing and re-numbering some machines.

Yes please to the list - I'll send you a private message with an e-mail address.

My Insert Setright also has W. A & Sons SR. Would the SR stand for Setright Register? It is numbered U01. Presumably this one was new to Alexanders?

James

Yes, I think the SR on the seal stood for Setright Registers. The Uxx series are thought to have been new to the original Alexander company: W Alexander & Sons Ltd.

Is there any way of telling what year Alexanders purchased U01, or where in their empire it was used?